>What else could> he call it? There are many aspects of it that ARE still a mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. (Just like we dream alone, even if we're in bed with someone else.). I actually had to look that up. EWS was potential. 2. I think this feeling of > guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the first thing on his mind. All of this could have been set up by Alice, who asks, Bill in the beginning, "why do you think Zeigler invites us to these? NG was :>the realization of that potential. But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.' Weve got a beautiful feminine version of the lead mask that features a baroque pattern and crystal embellishments, as well as a feathered mask similar to the The masked woman was played by a different actor but is the samecharacter. Statanic mass? Does anyone else sense the inspiration of the mask designs from the film Eyes Wide Shut? > it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is the mystery. > >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. In contrast, why does the masked woman seeminglyalready know much more than they do? On the other hand, he announcesthat what happened at that 'charade' was hugely, ominously important,so much so that the beating up of Nick Nightingale ("so he had abruise on his face that's a lot less than he deserved") and thedeath of 'Mandy' ("she was a junkie, she OD'd it happens all thetime end of story") was simply of no consequence by comparison. at the >> ceremony/orgy.>, > Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice?>. How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all wearingmasks? They paid off the desk cleark to tell Bill, that Nick was being roughed up, or perhaps the clerk is one of those men dancing with men at the ceremony/orgy and in fact Mandy, although on the slab was not really dead. When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him atthe orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would > she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it?>> Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here. Other interpretations are floating around, including the idea Alice was also at the party, and while there's no set meaning for how the mask got on that pillow, the idea Alice put it there herself seems to be the prevailing theory. He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, > till Zeigler tells him. : I like the Ninth Gate alot and have watched it numerous times but it's quite. This website has Julienne Davis listed with photos--in all three scenes! When I did this, at first it seems like a similar, but different face, but then seeing one frame of the bathroom scene from a certain angle, it jumped out at me that it was the same person, but I could be wrong. The woman who had tried to warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal cost. So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do you want me to say..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. >>>>>>>>>>> And why should anyone accept> anything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman> (or women) as "a hooker. Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage between> Mandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and the> Amanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drug> overdoses. We could say that even Nick was in on it and the phone call to Nick in the Jazz club was a set up to pique Bill's interest, even letting Bill knows the password. They're not 'big words', just words you are clearly unfamiliar with,apparently, words you'd therefore gleefully ridicule precisely becauseof your ignorance of them, it seems; but rather than gracefully admitthis, you instead attempt to denigrate the poster for having the gallto use words that challenge your smugonautic and myopic pomposity. Is that how youwould describe it? After Dr. Bill Harford's wife, Alice, admits to having sexual fantasies about a man she met, Bill becomes obsessed with having a sexual encounter. I am normally the last guy in theworld to criticize somebody for using big words, but, besides that you'renot bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using themserves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. It would be odd for him to say, "orgy," or ritual, > etc. The first several times I saw the film I though what the op thought. Please either stop > or> shape up. And the redeemer's pubic hair is also trimmed the same. 20 years ago today, the final masterpiece from the late, great Stanley Kubrick arrived in theaters. What does the mask on the pillow at the end of Eyes Wide Shutmean? If this were really thecase, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to themasked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" Every woman Bill meets in the film wants him, wants to be with him; Alice This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. Let's get out of here.You're my witness. You saw > her volunteer to sacrifice herself so the orgy managers would let Doctor > Cruise go free.>> If the woman in the mask had been the same woman as Mandy, you would have > expected some recognition of that from Doctor Cruise. Changes within the building seem to lack that phone booth sense of urgency and drama. People and Masks: The Meaning of Eyes Wide Shut. I recognized the voice of the mysterious woman first time I saw the film. Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays her voice in his head while looking over the body. > People often don't make definitive connections between things at the > moment. WebThe bodies of more completely nude masked women assail Bills voyeuristic eyes (and those of the audience). Superman movies must keep him in the pre 80s, or he needsto do some serious upgrading. No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" andpleading with her to take off her mask? People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the slightest. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, ME> You can identify Pollack's eyes and chin quite easily in the close ups.>. But he can't know for sure (because she wasmasked at Somerton). WebDirected by Stanley Kubrick Writing Credits Cast (in credits order) verified as complete Produced by Music by Jocelyn Pook Cinematography by Larry Smith (lighting Eyes Wide Shut cast Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman as a married couple, with the former playing a doctor who goes on a strange, sexually charged journey one I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any > way. <<<<<<<<<<. > No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare > clear and she has a very distinctive voice. 2. I recognized the voice of the > mysterious woman first time I saw the film.>>, >> it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." -- Fred Brooks, I think I saw the "Rhizomatic" for sale on TV Late last night. Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. Web1-48 of 339 results for "Eyes Wide Shut Mask" RESULTS Price and other details may vary based on product size and color. How doesshe know this? >> First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he >> was showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom.>, > Bill in that scene was simply behaving as a (not very) professional> doctor; and he seemed just as concerned about Ziegler's anxiety than> about Mandy's actual wellbeing. For instance,it's fairly obvious from the start who the Mysterious Woman is. The silence of the empty mind, like the silent empty space we see in 2001, is the best path to curing your mania. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.movies.kubrick/browse_frm/thread/16629c3d6011a459/705fb749859063b2?lnk=gst&q=treadmill#705fb749859063b2. ---people with no idea of the futility and silliness of counting endless grains of sands, with their mental masturbations and perserverations. He only ultimately accepts Ziegler's account because it> gives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerful> position - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing to> the demands and realities of Ziegler's world). http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/japanese-zen/. Those critics of EWS must have been delerious. It is as if he Wanted, as if hedesired, compelled, it to be so again, its at two - simultaneousbut contradictory - levels (as ALWAYS in many of Kubrick's films -like in The Shining: are the spectral ghosts 'real' or is Jack etcimagining them? and she > replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," > Mandy says, "I know." (and i'm sure that doesn't even begin to label them in full) They were nutcases. Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask <<<<<<<<<<<<. Desire is always Other. Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? 0. Even Ziegler only uses that wordin reference to his own earlier party, while referring to the Somertonrituals always more elusively: "I was there, at the House", "what ifwhat happened was a fake, a charade", etc, but no mention of any'party' at Somerton. Think of that journey as Dr. Bill's "living nightmare" or "daydream," which began after he left his wife. Why would he demand that she take off> her mask if this were so? And coming from the newsgroup'sresident acid-headed, solipsistic zombie. AmericanCinematographer did some thing on the lighting or something in thismovie when it came out, but David Mullen who used to post here (whenthis place was even worse) could answer like anything. Take another listen. While Polanski is the master ofparanoia, The Ninth Gate had too many things wrong with it. Was she the women at the party?" 0. Rather, heis beginning to SUSPECT that the body might be that of the maskedwoman, a suspician that leads him to look long and hard at her upclose in the morgue. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, -- Dennis/Endyhttp://home.comcast.net/~endymion91/~I was born to rock the boat. > Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the > Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow > our mind. >>>>>>>>If this were really thecase, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to themasked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" -----Richard Schultz sch@mail.biu.ac.ilDepartment of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, IsraelOpinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University-----"It would have been like discussing sundials with a bat. He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. It is only when Ziegler responds> positively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman in> the morgue?" ", wrote:> In rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey . > The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as > though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be > confused.>, > 2. Models at the party attended by the Royal Family. If we try > to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries and > much conjecture. Not only are they the REAL "anti-intellectuals," they were schizoid as hell and projected it onto the social mess, creating political gibberish, that has NO usefulness to anyone. He did not know who she was: she was wearinga mask. He treated her as a not-very-important> patient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery.>, Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast.>, > How? WebBrowse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask women and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a community of small business-owners. >In a big crowd of masked> people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is). Indeed, the film iscentrally concerned with the failure of a 'male-centric' andpatriarchal ideology to deal with female desire; and the narrativethrust of the film revolves around Bill's increasingly hopelessefforts to flee from (but also to copy and avenge) Alice's desire, adesire from which he is completely excluded, just as he is laterexcluded from the desire-space of the power-elite at Somerton. Nah, the only dreams in the movie are the one that Alice tells to Billand then Bill "daydreams' (thinks about) her having sex with thatsailor. But then again when Superman puts on a pair of plain eyeglassesLois Lane, or anyone else fails to recognize him as Clark Kent! Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here that unless they are encoded in single frames for analyssis will alwasy be a mystery. "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message news:47881976$0$11015$4c36@roadrunner.com "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message. Statanic mass? If those 2-3 women were supposed to be the same woman, Kubrick would, I thought this film was much less interesting than the competing film, In rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl <, In rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey <, On Feb 26, 3:27pm, "Avoid normal situations. Well, in the interview with "Mandy" - Julienne Davis. Tom Cruise in the Masked Ball ritual scene from Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece Eyes Wide Shut with Jocelyn Pook's haunting score filling the temple. If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I know." > certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. This is still a mystery. > Mandy was not the same woman. It is also perhaps worth pointing out that the Somerton events, thoughso described in countless reviews and commentaries on the film - arenot accurately called an orgy, as that would imply that female, inaddition to male, sexual desire would find free expression at such anevent. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Let him go! > not bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using > them> serves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. Many of the nude women begin pairing up with the fully-clothed men, and the orgy begins in nearly full view. Eyes Wide Shut is a 1999 erotic mystery psychological drama film directed, produced and co-written by Stanley Kubrick. ANSWER. - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). WebOne of the masked women warns him he is in terrible danger. > First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was > showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow our mind. Orgy? Before warning him, the Are we not acceptingZiegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectivelyinterpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlierevents of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeplysuspect account? And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? And if it's *not* supposed to be obvious, thatmeans that Polanski screwed up. We need some upstart director and SK devotee who can channel SK, to Make EWS part 2. There are many aspects of it that ARE still a > mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. As for Kelpzoid's rants on the topic - isn't there a RAW Illuminatusng out there somewhere? The official cause of death was from a heart attack. > But the credits have Abigail Good as> "mysterious woman" and Julienne Davis as Mandy. >>>>>>>>> And even if it was clear, even if he had> referred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)> party, it would still be uncertain, because>> 1. MYMENU MYMENU Masquerade Mask For Couples --alt.flame Special Forces"All successful software gets changed." in fact if you look very closely, Mandy on the Slab, winks. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing this," Mandy says, "Ya." OT. Nevertheless, those two recollections(one of a fantasy, one of a dream) constitute the very desire whoseexclusion (from the quotidian, commonsensical, 'social reality' of theHarfords' marriage) the film is exploring. [Some irrelevant pseudo-Buddhist gibberish snipped]. Whereas atSomerton, Ziegler and the others only first become suspicious of Billas an interloper because of how he arrived there (in a taxi ratherthan a limousine). The masks worn in the Eyes Wide Shut orgy scene are from Venetian carnivals; a reputation of civil disorder, moral debauchery and ritualized eroticism. ", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. Same voice. Masks - both literal and figurative - are a major motif, and one of the most important sequences is when Bill infiltrates a masked sex party at a remote mansion, which is being held by members of high society. The film centers on a profoundly unsatisfied couple tied together not by pure love, but by social convenience and appearances. "anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? for the morgue scene but it is still meant to be the same Mandy. '<<<<<<<<<<< I think it is clear he was > referring to the Somerton party. This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the filmitself, there is absolutely no indication - other than Ziegler'sdubious contention - that Mandy is also the masked woman at Somerton.There could even have been two deaths. I enjoy the mystery entirely and will return to it over and over and could watch the film again and again. > He didn't recognise her voice. I never said Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when > we study it. WebI n the film "Eyes Wide Shut", who was the masked woman that redeemed Tom Cruise's character? >>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>wearingmasks? andpleading with her to take off her mask? ", and for those whom may have something like an actual interest in, > In rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl <. Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. Bill is ushered to a crowded room and unmasked by the master of ceremonies. >Even in the morgue he still might not have> been positive, but he replays her voice in his head while looking over the> body. and> pleading with her to take off her mask? Being "all a Charade," doesn't mean it was all a dream. Somerton could hardly be >>>>>> described (andcertainly not by Bill) as a 'party.'<<<<<<<<<<<. Milich even tried to talk Bill into renting a more colorful costume. But what he was getting at was whether it was murder and a sacrifice for him, which makes him feel responsible, since it would not have happened had he not been there. And Milich was expecting him. (3) With the advent of cyberspace, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under. > slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, hasit confirmed by someone else (Ziegler)", Ditto. > But I agree the way it is done is brilliant and it leaves all of us unsure > of everything, opening up infinite possibilites as to what it all means. No comments. But what he was getting at was whether it was > murder and a sacrifice for him, which makes him feel responsible, since it > would not have happened had he not been there. Eyes Wide Shut is Stanley Kubrick's final movie starring Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, but what does the mask on the pillow near the end mean? - Ziegler> wasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so as> to avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is just> between us").>>> What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning the> identities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),> sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps and> deadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just like> Ziegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' of> events. The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy all along, although apparently there was a body double for some scenes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing >> this," Mandy says, "Ya." > So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) this> would 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? > But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the events> at Somerton as a 'party.'<<<<<<<. Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage betweenMandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and theAmanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drugoverdoses. but comparing the shot with all the the bathroom shots, eventually it is clear that it is Mandy. WebEyes Wide Shut (1999) Abigail Good: Mysterious Woman, Masked Party Principal Showing all 3 items Jump to: Quotes (3) Quotes Mysterious Woman : Stop! Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) thiswould 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? Somerton could hardly be described (andcertainly not by Bill) as a 'party.' The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be confused. "The ng will die when there are no longer any participants. ", "I saw her body in the morgue. One intriguing reading of the Eyes Wide Shutmask being on the pillow is that it's only in Bill's head as if he's exhausted by trying to hide his attempts at infidelity or true feelings from Alice, leading to an emotional breakdown. >>>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>>wearing> masks? Barcaluv. Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler > is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. When we see the naked corpse's face from the overhead shot, at first it's hard to tell if it's really Mandy's face, because of the expression and the angle, her combed back hair etc. <<<<<<<<<<<<<>. Orgy? In the bathroom scene, there is no way to tell if Mandy has that freckle, because of her slouched position, which also makes it hard to tell her height in relation to Bill. (1) As more people opt for lasik surgery, he will not be able to hide behind those specs. I never siad Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when we study it. >>on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to >>him. And even if it was clear, even if he hadreferred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)party, it would still be uncertain, because. > Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is another > mystery. Isn't that - again - amazing; except that you're not even unfortunateenough to have a mindless head, given the large quantities ofbubblewrap - and nothing else - between your ears take care, MrKelpless. It's not like > he is going to voice all his thoughts.>>>, >> >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). The movie went through post-production following Stanley Kubrick's death, though some have argued about how much it represents his intended vision. The lower part is made of paper-mache, while the upper one In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, subliminally. at the > ceremony/orgy. From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Bill> has been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-> vis Mandy and the masked woman. Like much of the director's work like The Shining, movie fans love to debate the symbolism and meaning of Eyes Wide Shut. But that's not the half of it. -Herodotus, You do not have permission to delete messages in this group, Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message, I thought the woman who ODd at the dance party (Mandy), the woman who, Well, in the interview with "Mandy" - I don't care to look up her name, Here is a youtube video of "Mandy" (Julienne Davis), singing in her band, I sent a message to the YouTube person who hosted those "Mandy" videos if. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. The lost of public phones booths will kill off Superman, Dr. Who, and Colin Farrell roles. When he gets to Somerton, they are all wearing the same kind of costume--Nick only tells him, they are "costumed and masked." But he still wasn't sure after reading the news story, or even aftervisiting the morgue, as his disbelief at Ziegler's explanationindicated. Perhaps it> would have worked better if there had been a photo in the news> article. Desire is always the desire of theOther our dreams constituring the realisation of desire. Eyes Wide Shut cast Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman as a married couple, with the former playing a doctor who goes on a strange, sexually charged journey one night when his wife admits to having had adulterous thoughts. And of course how did > the mask get on his pillow? ", > I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you, > mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. Please either stop orshape up. It's not like he is going to voice all his thoughts. WebThe masked woman in the secret party appears to be Mandy (Amanda Curran), who overdosed on speedball in the movies opening, and Bill revived her. Deleuze probably realized how stupid he was before he jumped out that window. There's also search enginessuch as Google where you can search for information. <<<<<<<<<<<>. If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? But then, Ziegler's 'explanation', his retconningof past events, only serves to further propel Bill into subjectivedestitution, another 'replay' of Bill's unmasking at Somerton, Zieglerpower-presiding over Bill's position and status at a red pool-tablemuch like Red Cloak presided over the power ritual on a red carpet atSomerton. The end of Eyes Wide Shut mask '' results Price and other details may vary based product! '' results Price and other details may vary based on product size and color the 's. Figure it out perfect in that way -- -- -or was hethere another... And silliness of counting endless grains of sands, with their mental masturbations and perserverations 's out... 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